Lost Christianities: Christian Scriptures and the Battles over Authentication
Lost Christianities: Christian Scriptures and the Battles over Authentication
Rated 4 out of
5
by
Quetico from
Informative
Pro – Interesting discussion on what texts were considered for the biblical canon and why they were “voted off the island”. In the very last lecture, he ties things together by addressing the rationale for the creeds and trinity.
Con – Not as engaging as Professor Ehrman’s “How Jesus Became God” (circa 2014). This course was done 2002, so it seems that the Great Courses evolved the presentation format over the years. Anyway, a bit dry. Also, I purchased the Video, but graphics were used only sparingly. As such, the Audio-only version could have easily sufficed.
Date published: 2018-12-19
Rated 5 out of
5
by
Jim605 from
Well done
Very interesting and well presented. I learned quite a lot.
Date published: 2018-11-16
Rated 5 out of
5
by
BrightCoral from
Interesting and Informative w/historical insights
I wasn't sure what to expect, but I was curious about the gnostic gospels. The lectures were very interesting, and show just how diverse Christianity was in the ancient times. I'm really enjoying the lectures.
Date published: 2018-07-13
Rated 4 out of
5
by
Pete 2 from
Good course
Good course for one who wants a better understanding of the development of Christian theology, ideas accepted and those not accepted as orthodox.
Date published: 2018-05-01
Rated 5 out of
5
by
Maine MOMMA from
Lost Christianities: Christian Scriptures
I just received my course DVD's and accompanying booklet. I have read parts of the booklet and can't wait to watch the DVD's. The accompanying information is so informative I know I will enjoy every minute of the video portion. Thanks for a great course. I am familiar with Bart Ehrman and know his work is scholarly.
Date published: 2018-04-09
Rated 5 out of
5
by
rmutt1917 from
i watched this course previously
I'm sure it is a superb course as I greatly admire the author I watch the course previously, loaned it and never got it back. I bought the audio, but I was never able to hear anything. probably my fault
Date published: 2018-02-28
Rated 5 out of
5
by
MimB from
Highly enjoyable. I didn't entirely agree with some of his interpretations, but as that was essentially the point of the course - the different interpretations of early Christians - that is fine.
Date published: 2018-01-10
Rated 3 out of
5
by
tommyd555 from
Solid content but it is repeated in other courses
Very solid course as usual from Professor Ehrman. He is in the upper echelon of Great Courses professors. He is easy to understand and follow which goes a long way when evaluating a course. If a professor cannot communicate clearly and succinctly then the best content can be tough to get into. My one "but" about his works though has always been that there is much repetition between his courses. More on that in a moment.
But first the good: This course offers a good look into the different types of Christianities and beliefs that existed in the first few centuries AD and how today’s orthodox views about Jesus and his life won out resulting in the formation of today’s accepted New Testament canon. The first three-fourths of the course center on Christian apocrypha and pseudepigrapha books (examples from all genres in the New Testament are included: gospels, acts, epistles, and apocalypses). The contents and messages behind the books are analyzed, illustrating the existence of earlier Christian belief systems that existed in parallel with today’s orthodox views in the first centuries AD. These included:
o The Ebionites who believed that Jesus was human but not divine/God but he was the Jewish Messiah and that the Jewish law must be kept to by all
o The Marcionites who believed that Jesus was divine/God but not human and gentiles did not have to follow Jewish law to be a Christian
o The Gnostics who believed that the god of the Old Testament who created this earth was a corrupted offspring from another god and that secret knowledge of who we are and where we came from (the spark of divine in us) was the path to eternal life not Jesus’ death for sin redemption
o Adoptionists who believe that God adopted Jesus as his Son at his baptism and left him at his crucifixion vs. him being eternally divine
o Christians who believed that all committed believers should abstain from sex including those that are married
Minuses:
1- While a number of gospels, acts, and epistle apocrypha books were examined, only one apocalypse was discussed (The Apocalypse of Peter)
2- A good amount of the information in the course (including much of the last fourth) can be found in other courses by the professor especially relating to how today’s New Testament canon came together and information on a lot of the apocrypha books. I understand the topics have overlap and there are listeners who would not have heard his other courses but I was hoping for something different or new in the last four lectures from this course but it was like re-listening to the “The History of the Bible - The Making of the New Testament Canon” course all over again. I feel like it shouldn't be so alike that you're left feeling like you've paid for the same course twice. Something is wrong there. Likewise the courses “The Greatest Controversies of Early Christian History” and "How Jesus Became God" have very similar info. To be honest this is one of the major reasons why I have shied away from purchasing course "The Historical Jesus" despite my high regard for the professor, his works, his conclusions, and his style. I just find it hard to believe that I will find anything of significant note there that I haven't already heard in his other courses.
3- While there was good discussion on the fact that today’s orthodox view and New Testament won out over other Christianities, there wasn’t much discussion of HOW it did so. I think he alludes to a reason or two and we can suspect why but I find it odd it isn't discussed in any kind of detail.
All in all I would recommend this course to anyone interested in learning more about the early different types of Christianity. If you believe today's orthodox view has always been the dominant view or the ONLY view from Jesus' time to today then this course will certainly open your eyes to a fascinating topic.
Date published: 2017-12-07
Rated 5 out of
5
by
Albireo from
Eye-opening account of early Christianity
Bart is one of the best lecturers I've listened to since purchasing courses from TGC. He really knows his subject, and draws on sources most of us are unfamiliar with that documented early alternative Christianities. This period is fundamental in understanding how Christianity became what it is seen to be today.
Date published: 2017-11-09
Rated 5 out of
5
by
Nickfromredcliff from
Very enlightening!
I think the problem a lot of people have with modern organized religion is that a long time ago a bunch of people sat down and decided which books and teachings were true and which were heretical. This is a wholly political practice as anyone interested in finding the truth in the universe would never work to silence people who disagreed with them. This has been a course I've needed for a long time and I loved it.
Date published: 2017-07-13
Rated 5 out of
5
by
IraV from
PRIMEVAL ? CHRISTIANITY
Reviewing some of his other Great Courses, I have already praised Prof. Ehrmann’s teaching style and method—my praise applies equally to this course too. Additionally, however, one should stress the fascinating and sensationalist nature of the textual material around which this course revolves.
The logical starting point for the course is fully developed during the… final six lectures (esp. lecture 19) : what is nowadays considered heretical might, in reality, be of a much more ancient provenance than what passes as orthodox. And what is nowadays considered as not heretical, is not a godsend (OK this is Ehrmann, he is summarizing historical research and reflexion which is endeavouring to be as science-and not religion-like, as possible). What is nowadays considered as not heretical most likely does not reflect merely what the historical Jesus had taught but rather reflects what the victors, from the most vehement early ideological power struggle, considered as the proper doctrine for Christians. Were the said victors divinely inspired, is this why they won the contest? That’s not for this course to decide—it is certainly not for me to tell!
How can we catch a glimpse of the beliefs entertained by these “early Christianities” –much like cosmologists are trying …well after the event, to go back to tiny fractions of a second after the Big Bang! Many of these beliefs are considered, since many centuries now, as the utmost of heresy. Well, the apocrypha—though produced likely later than our Gospels, etc., -- might offer such a glimpse, they might be the right, so to speak, “telescope” to explore the “early Christianities’.
Indeed, Ehrmann goes over various texts written during the first few centuries A.D. analogous to the Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles and the Revelation which contemporary Christians accept as most sacred books.
Occasionally, the material which Prof. Ehrmann summarizes for us has to be reconstructed from polemics which are the only extant relevant writings. Ehrman tries (it seems very difficult) to present the apocryphal texts in a structured and organized way, i.e., to draw out the main ideas conveyed and to compare and contrast with the canon, i.e., present day Christian beliefs (in the process often illuminating these present day beliefs by setting them apart from heretical beliefs). Indeed, one needs his help otherwise one could easily be lost in these highly versatile and very florid, fantastic apocryphal writings to which some of the ancients must have been so attached!
Date published: 2017-07-06
Rated 5 out of
5
by
SOLODOC from
stick with audio
I got the video, and feel the audio would have been sufficient...
Date published: 2017-07-03
Rated 5 out of
5
by
BGZRedix from
Fascinating and Superbly Taught
The story of how a religion - any religion - is born and develops is inherently fascinating. Christianity is a particularly engrossing case because, as Professor Ehrman explains, its emphasis on right belief, rather than on ritual practice or the adherence to religious laws, set it apart from all others in the Greco-Roman world.
Also remarkable, and largely forgotten or ignored in today's world, are the facts that Christian belief developed over centuries before reaching something like the modern version, and that many systems of what are now considered heresies were once equally legitimate and competing schools of thought. It is these aspects of Christian history that are the primary subjects here.
Professor Ehrman - as in all of his courses - is superb. His speech is clear, eloquent, and expressive, and his knowledge and organization are outstanding. I consider him one of TGC's finest professors in all respects.
Be aware that Lost Christianities - again, as is true of all Ehrman courses - is a historical study, not a religious sermon, and as such does not assume the truth of Christian belief, nor does it impugn such belief.
The video has some helpful outlines of the points being made. Audio would also be fine.
As should be clear, this course has my highest recommendation for anyone with an interest in Christianity or in the history of religion.
Date published: 2017-04-30
Rated 4 out of
5
by
Hola from
eye opener
In still not finished with the DVD but so far it's information and interesting
Date published: 2017-04-19
Rated 5 out of
5
by
oldmayor from
An Absolute listen to for Christians
I am just half way through but what I have learned has really strengthened my view of my faith. Words that are said in the creeds have come alive. I have done a lot of reading about the early church but this is been the best content and cutting to the chase. It is a must read for people that want to learn and not just listen. My church believes in baptism but the early church believed in learning just as much which is more than a lot of churches brush off today. First Class.
Date published: 2017-01-21
Rated 3 out of
5
by
Eagles from
An average presentation
It is said that the winner writes the history. This lecture shows who wrote the history of Christianity and how all opposing views were destroyed.
Date published: 2016-12-29
Rated 5 out of
5
by
DJ33401 from
The New Testament
Amazingly detailed and addicting. Thank you Professor Bart D. Ehrman for making this very important history come to life.
Date published: 2016-11-21
Rated 4 out of
5
by
hectorpr from
So far so good.
My only recommendation is that more visuals be incorporated into the presentations: they would complement and enhance it.
Date published: 2016-11-13
Rated 5 out of
5
by
Ythrix from
Thought-provoking
Fascinating lectures on well-chosen topics that combine for an excellent course! Many different points of view of early Christians are explained, both individually and how they differed from what became the Christian orthodox view of the events and meaning surrounding Jesus' life, death, and to most but not all of these early understandings, his resurrection.
Professor Ehrman clearly explains the great underlying differences that defined groups in the first centuries after Jesus. He walks course participants through both the physical documents and interpretations of the varying writings these groups believed to be scripture. He also considers forgeries (done with good intentions or not), copy/edit errors found comparing sources, and the far-from-robust process used to choose the contents of what today is the New Testament.
think this course would be interesting to Christians of many flavors and also to people who do not consider themselves Christians but are interested in either the historical Jesus or ancient writings in general. I highly recommend the course. My wife and I listened to the audio version.
Date published: 2016-09-29
Rated 5 out of
5
by
Bruce Belcher from
Excellent Course and Professor
I am impressed by Dr. Ehrman's thorough understanding of the material. Ehrman presents various chapters that were not included in the New Testament. He does a good job of showing how the material in various chapters related to changes in the world; for example the story became less apocolyptic over time.
Date published: 2016-08-30
Rated 5 out of
5
by
LearningIsWonderful from
More than it seems
I got this one in hope of reading about strange and unexpected apocryphal books of early Christian belief. I got that, but there was more context than I had expected. The entire early tree of Christian churches, sociological and ethnic differentiation, conflicts and battles for dominance, the importance of the surrounding Roman culture and political framework, all were extra, fascinating content that I hadn't expected. Just two examples: The role of competition with Gnostic and other schools in encouraging early mainstream Christians to create a codex, and the position of early Christians vs. existing Jewish communities in the extended Roman empire as driving early Christian anti-Semitism. This is fascinating stuff!
Date published: 2016-08-08
Rated 4 out of
5
by
Rich Rose from
Solid Piece of Work
The content is fascinating--a fine window into a very strange world. Dr. Ehrman is a passionate presenter. I did find the pace a little slow and the amount of internal review a little more than optimal. I found myself occasionally thinking "Yes, you told us that already now lets get on with it." Perhaps Dr. Ehrman is not fully considering the difference between the Great Courses consumer and the undergraduate students he may typically deal with. We just don't need quite as much "scaffolding". The graphics that were included were quite useful, but their number a bit sparse. The course would have benefited from more visuals. I would also be curious as to which, if any, of the visuals were supposed to be accurate portraits of the various authorities.
Overall, this course was well worth both the time and money.
Date published: 2016-06-02
Rated 3 out of
5
by
Quirk from
Interesting but unsatisfying
This course is interesting as far as it goes, but I could not help wondering as I listened what agenda lies behind it all? "I know what others don't" hubris? "I need to take a contrarian position to other scholars specializing in the same field?" The Gnostic documents presented as victims seems to shed much of its' probative force when examined in the context of consensus among other mainstream scholars. Must admit, I drank the professor's cool aid. I should have stopped there. But, I kept reading. I learned that most other scholars formed very different conclusions on some of the same information, with far more compelling and fair-minded supportive evidence. So, my initial fascination with this professor's position on the scriptural basis of the Christian canon, now leaves me feeling somewhat misled, if not betrayed. By all means, buy this course. Learn from it. Just don't stop there.
Date published: 2016-05-17
Rated 5 out of
5
by
Brad S from
Very well done
The course was very well done, balanced, and interesting. I studied some of this material in college (not by this professor, of whom I was unfamiliar before the course), and I thought these lectures were better, and certainly better for a more general audience. The professor provides a balanced, informative presentation and clearly separates what's known and what's conjecture. The course is an interesting and efficient way to learn about this period from someone who obviously knows his field. While the course is geared to the novice in the topic, even someone with quite a bit of background can learn a lot from these well constructed lectures. Highly recommended.
Date published: 2016-03-17
Rated 5 out of
5
by
DougA from
Great Course
I love the presentations done by Prof. Ehrman and bringing to light the historical knowledge of his subject matter. I highly recommend his courses.
Date published: 2016-03-12
Rated 4 out of
5
by
JohnRock from
Well done, informative
This course is well produced and informative. I found the presentation a little superficial and repetitious. Nevertheless, the professor held my interest and satisfied my curiosity about differing beliefs among early Christians.
Date published: 2016-01-29
Rated 5 out of
5
by
JacquesChouette from
A controversial subject for some
Any time you have a subject which talks about "Lost Christianities", it will generate a large amount of controversy in certain segments of Christianity. However, those who are not afraid to challenge their beliefs in order make their faith stronger will not be offended and will actually welcome the chance to know more about the Bible and how Christianity that we know today came to be.
I had previously read the book "Misquoting Jesus" by Dr. Ehrman and found it to be very interesting and thought provoking, so when I saw this course, I knew that I had to immediately buy it. I was not disappointed. There were so many items that I wanted to write down and remember for my future gospel study that I lost track after awhile. When I get time again, I will have to re-watch the entire course and take better notes this time.
Date published: 2015-08-03
Rated 4 out of
5
by
Geoperky from
Christian Reflection
Audio download.
Before widely available written texts about the teachings of this relatively unknown Jesus of Nazareth in the first century CE, there were many different opinions about the true meaning of this man. Was he a man or God, or just a spirit of piety? Dr Erhman examines the history behind some of these questions, fairly, in my opinion. While it is pretty clear that Bart has an agenda, I think he lays out the fact so that the reader/listener can reach their own conclusions. Conclusions about what? Well, how did Christianity come to be one of the most dominant religions in the world? In a world of mostly illiterate, desperately poor people, how was 'the word' spread...and who spread it?
Dr Erhman holds a mirror to the face of Christianity and asks the questions about the origins of the New Testament and how it fits into the Bible we know today. I've read many of the reviews for these lectures and fail to see why anyone could be offended. After all, we have many different varieties of Christian practices today...Catholic, Mormon, Protestants, 7th Day Adventist, Baptists...all having major philosophical differences, why not in antiquity? Apparently, the New Testament was a sort of group effort, in which many different points of view from many different authors were categorized as either good (acceptable doctrine), or bad (not so acceptable doctrine). Most recognized Jesus as special, but just couldn't agree on how his message fit in with his Hebrew origins in a pagan world. The good Professor wonders what the canon would be like if one of these (slightly) different set of texts had been incorporated into the Bible we know today. (What if one of those texts had been written by L. Ron Hubbard...or Stephen King?)
Like all of the other Teaching Company lectures, this course opens topics that allow the individual to dig a little deeper...learn a little more. Do you have to agree with everything presented? No, but you should want to find out the facts that allow you to reach your own conclusions. That's why we listen to these lectures...to learn more.
Recommended...Dr Erhman is an entertaining, highly knowledgeable lecturer, with whom I agree (pretty obviously). Wait for a sale and a coupon...he's not that good to pay full price.
Date published: 2015-07-06
Rated 5 out of
5
by
Elsilynn from
Excellent Learning Experience
I think this course is an example of what listeners wish all such courses would be like. It is full of knowledge and the experience of the instructor, organized and taught in an easy to understand manner that seems more like conversation on his part. I was somewhat amazed by the depth of the course and the knowledge imparted by the eminently qualified instructor, and yet never felt overwhelmed due to the interesting nature of the sessions.
Date published: 2015-03-11
Rated 5 out of
5
by
Dobermom from
Lost Christianities
The content is fascinating. Dr. Ehrman is excellent; and has a wonderfully relaxed manner in the way he explains these ancient texts and their history. I feel almost as if I'm in the same room with him. The accompanying booklet is such a great complement to the CDs. Nice to refer to after listening. I bought the series simply for pleasure, and am enjoying every minute of it.
Date published: 2015-03-08
1: The Diversity of Early Christianity
Modern Christianity is widely diverse in its social structures, beliefs and practices, but this diversity is mild compared to the first three centuries A.D., when Christians disagreed on such basic issues as how many gods there were, or whether Jesus was human, divine, both, or neither.
32 min
4: Early Gnostic Christianity-Our Sources
The Gnostics believed that special knowledge brought salvation to souls trapped in the evil, material world. Before 1945 and the discovery of the Nag Hammadi library, information about this widespread group of Christian sects came almost solely from the writings of Irenaeus, Tertullian, and other church fathers who opposed them.
30 min
5: Early Christian Gnosticism-An Overview
This lecture provides an overview of the Gnostic religions. It considers their possible origins within a Judeo-Christian tradition that maintained that God had created the world and controlled it. This was hard for some Jews and/or Christians to accept.
31 min
6: The Gnostic Gospel of Truth
One of the most intriguing documents from the Nag Hammadi library is the Gnostic Gospel of Truth. It does not relate stories about the life of Jesus, but instead celebrates the "good news" that Jesus brought. The views of God, the world, Christ, and salvation here stand in stark contrast with those that became orthodox within Christianity.
31 min
7: Gnostics Explain Themselves
This lecture considers two writings that attempted to explain the Gnostic system to outsiders. Ptolemy tries to show that neither the one true God nor the Devil could have inspired the Old Testament. In the Treatise on the Resurrection, the anonymous author insists that, contrary to the claims of proto-orthodox Christians, the resurrection is of the spirit, not the flesh.
31 min
12: The Secret Gospel of Mark
In 1958 at the Mar Saba library near Jerusalem, scholar Morton Smith found a fragment of a letter supposedly written by the 2nd-century church father Clement. It indicated that a second edition of Mark's Gospel existed, and was intended only for the spiritually elite. Is this letter authentic or a modern forgery?
31 min
16: Forgeries in the Name of Paul
A number of letters survive that are credited to the apostle Paul, but which were clearly fabricated. This lecture considers two sets of such correspondence. Evidently forged in the fourth century, these letters were meant to portray Paul as equal to the greatest minds of his day.
31 min
20: Beginnings of the Canon
Christianity was unique among religions of the Greco-Roman world in emphasizing the importance of belief instead of cultic practice, and in its insistence that it was the only true religion. The formation of the New Testament canon can be seen as a development among Christians to root their beliefs in the teachings of Jesus and his apostles.
31 min
21: Formation of the New Testament Canon
Contrary to popular belief, the canon of the New Testament's 27 books did not emerge at the very beginning of the Christian movement. Although written during the 1st century, or soon thereafter, it took 300 years before these books were declared to be canonical.
31 min
22: Interpretation of Scripture
Deciding which books to include in the canon was not enough to ensure the proto-orthodox understanding of the Christian faith. There were numerous ways to interpret the books of Scripture, and the early Christian centuries saw numerous debates over interpretation.
31 min
24: Early Christian Creeds
The final lecture considers the formation of the Christian creeds: statements of faith to determine what was true (orthodox) and what was false (heretical). The well-known creeds of the 4th century, such as the Nicene Creed, developed from earlier formulations known as the "Rule of Faith," and from confessions by converts before baptism.
31 min
Bart D. Ehrman
Anyone who’s interested in understanding what the words of Jesus might mean in the modern world cannot take them at face value and apply them to the present situation without seeing how that situation is different from his own.
ALMA MATER
Princeton Theological Seminary
INSTITUTION
The University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
About Bart D. Ehrman
Dr. Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He completed his undergraduate work at Wheaton College and earned his M.Div. and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary. Professor Ehrman has written or edited 27 books, including four best sellers on The New York Times list: Misquoting Jesus: The Story behind Who Changed the Bible and Why; God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question-Why We Suffer; Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (and Why We Don't Know about Them);and Forged: Writing in the Name of God-Why the Bible's Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are. Professor Ehrman also served as president of the Society of Biblical Literature, Southeastern Region; book review editor of the Journal of Biblical Literature; editor of the Scholars' Press monograph series The New Testament in the Greek Fathers;and coeditor-in-chief for the journal Vigiliae Christianae. Professor Ehrman received the John William Pope Center Spirit of Inquiry Award, the UNC Students' Undergraduate Teaching Award, the Phillip and Ruth Hettleman Prize for Artistic and Scholarly Achievement by Young Faculty, and the Bowman and Gordon Gray Professorship (awarded for excellence in undergraduate teaching).
